North Korea

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North Korea

Postby KL-666 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Kim Jong Un. The funny bit for the Dutch is that Un is pronounced like the Dutch word Oen. That means something like: Silly Person.

Now for the less funny bit. North Korea is capable of two separate things. One is to fire missiles, second is to explode atomic bombs. The capability they miss at the moment is to mount an atomic bomb on a missile.

The last opportunity to take that regime out is now. If you wait, they will be able to mount an atomic bomb on a missile, and may be able to reach California. Then you can do nothing anymore against that regime.

As a pacifist i am against war. But if somone decides to take out that regime now, i will not protest. It is the last opportunity.

Kind regards, Vincent

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Re: North Korea

Postby HJ1an » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:41 am

KL-666 wrote:
As a pacifist i am against war. But if somone decides to take out that regime now, i will not protest. It is the last opportunity.

Kind regards, Vincent

While I agree with you, and hope that it really is that simple, the reality it really isn't that simple. If you take out Kim it would leave a power vaccumm in N. Korea and the next person to step in will probably be just as whacked seeing that as they are so far removed from the rest of the world and so brainwashed.

If you take out their military, of which makes up 90% (I'm just throwing figures in here from thin air) of their population, you risk being labeled as genocidal. Even if everyone and their pets agree to that action, the person pushing the big red button will have a hard time pressing on it. I know I will. At the end of the day, they are yet another country of reasonable people out just trying to stay alive screwed by their leaders and petty politics.


Well here's hoping they screw up a live missile launch and obliterate themselves and solve our problem once and for all. But even that thought is a bit harsh but at least it allow for the "I didn't do it, they bought it upon themselves" ...

Also, I supposed real hardcore action can only be taken only if the North Koreans took action *first*, so the US probably should get Guam and Hawaii ready to play some Missile Command. For me, I can only hope I living in a small unimportant backwater town would be enough reason to get out of harms way.

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Re: North Korea

Postby jwocky » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:33 pm

Forget it. That ship has sailed long ago. We had our chance in the 50s, but it ended in a stalemate. Since, NKorea was partially under he nuclear protection of China, partially under Russia's, that changed occasionally for and back, but bottom line is, since 1953 on, there was no military option really feasible anymore.
There was, beginning in 2005 a political option when NKorea was so in need for energy, that Bush negotiated out they stop their nuclear program and get in exchange American nuclear reactor types without breed capability (means, unable to breed uranium for nukes). The thing went so far, that NKorea blew up already a part of the first plant ... but of course, then Obama became President and the new administration didn't even make an attempt to ratify the suggested treaty. The old Kim died, the new Kim came in power ... game over.

Still, while in this case any military option would be pricey in blood and money and highly risky, I admit, I wonder a bit. So, Vincent, the pacifist, is looking for someone who does the bleeding for him? And in return he promises not to complain? See, here is my problem with the attitude, and since we are already talking Korea, I use that as example. After WWII, pacifism became pretty much fashion. By all means, everybody had just survived another war to end all wars ... except for those millions of course who didn't. But the dead never have the right for an opinion.
So, everybody reduced the military as fast as possible. The US had all those tanks over. Mostly M4 Sherman's. The Army, and Eisenhower was of course their voice in that, wanted to mothball them. They argued, a new war would not announce itself for long, it would, given the changed geo-strategical situation and the new level of nuclear weaponry, emerge as a fast crisis situation. But pacifism was ver fashionable and Truman catered to that line of thinking. Basically the Army was just butthurt, no war to fight, all cry babies whining about their toys. And thus Truman decided (because he had a pen too) to scuttle those tanks. Destroy them. All the pacifists were happy. But there were of course two nations that would be a problem. One was Korea, the other one was Germany actually. Both were split because the parts liberated/occupied in WWII by the Americans were western oriented democracies or on the way to get there, the parts liberated/occupied by the Russians were socialist dictatorships. And socialism/communism is an exclusive ideology that doesn't allow other ways of life aside itself. So it was clear, there would be conflict. Not in Germany. Germany was too near to the one western nation that didn't destroy arms but armed up: France. Germany had also the Britsish and Americans already in the country on the West.
So, the balloon burst in Korea when NKorea, the Soviets and China made their move on June 25, 1950. In other words, the had left the pacifists just enough time to destroy the tanks
The US troops under a quick UN mandata fought t first a hopeless fight, just winning time. No heavy armor, no heavy weaponry, not enough anti-tank weaponry. The Army had to scavenge old battlefields in Europe and sweep up tank wrecks, repair them and fly them to Korea in all hurry. In the meantime people died, not a few, thousands.
What do we learn form this?

1.) When a pacifist realizes, sometimes, being nice doesn't pay, it is usually too late anyway
2.) If you arm up and the pacifists are complaining, you know, you are still right in time. If they stop complaining, you better have all your gear ready or you are screwed.
3.) Pacifists look down on people ready to fight. They are smart and ethical untouchable people and so much better than the normal grunt ... which is why, if their ideas go down the gutter once more and someone has to clean up, the pacifist doesn't take a gun. He looks for someone he can later look down upon to clean up his mess.
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!

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