Free Flight, Free Speech

The console was changed because FGRun would crash if an aircraft caused error messages.

It's a lot harder than it seems to make the console work reliably under Windows than you'd imagine. The old way had problems too; such as an exception being printed and then the window immediately closing making it a game of reflexes to try and get a screen capture to see the message.

Ideally Windows would just work like it does in unix; that way you could see the errors, redirect to a log file, or less.

I've got some Win32 code somewhere that worked reasonably well opening a console from a "GUI" application; but I can't find it and it took me a long time to get it right when I did it.

Personally I've given up with launchers for development and just make a batch file to do the necessary; it's much faster and now I get to see all of my errors. FGRun is great at giving you the command line arguments to use.

Richard wrote:The console was changed because FGRun would crash if an aircraft caused error messages.

I can see your point about Win32, but here is my rub:

The console was a great tool to debug the errors that were in a plane, or that you created while developing them.
You read the console and its STDERR, and have a pretty good idea of what you need to clean up.

You need, This texture is not power of two, or the file config.xlm does not exist, or that WrongTextureName.png also fails to be find by ac3d.,
Those message provide reliable and invaluable information. Hidding them or never outputting is the shadowing of an effective debugging [especially since aircraft configs are not compiled, and thus you dont get compiler warning messages that tell you were you are going weird]

I see the convenience of hiding it for general usage, but to remove this info completely seems counterproducing.

If the output is causing bugs; I am of the opinion that you hunt those bugs, instead of kill the feature out.

I cannot upgrade to this version because of this... Still on 2016.1.2. The last version without an issue causing me using FGFS to be harder.

it0uchpods wrote:I NEVER had this errors...

But if that was the reason I blame LAZY DEVELOPERS for remove a useful thing instead of fixing it...

it0uchpods. STDERR is the generic name of the outputs of console when the program does something considered incorrect for the execution flow.
Generally, properly written software prints very informative STDERRs, and less properly written software prints very obscure and cryptic ones.

Flightgear is the kind of software that outputs no error, as it seems. Which leaves the developer in the black into howto debug their system. (read, how do you know what's wrong with your aircraft, specifically?)

yup

Richard wrote:Ideally Windows would just work like it does in unix; that way you could see the errors, redirect to a log file, or less.

Ideally all windows users had linux at least as a second operating system...

I have linux on a PC somewhere.

But I prefer my Windows Vista Buisness x64.

At least there is a new version of flying software that I need to install when I get home. I cant wait to see what they screwed fixed this time

D-ECHO wrote:

Richard wrote:Ideally Windows would just work like it does in unix; that way you could see the errors, redirect to a log file, or less.

Ideally all windows users had linux at least as a second operating system...

Ideally, Windows users would be bad memories from the past

I use windows.