Free Flight, Free Speech

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:55 pm**

KL-666 wrote:There have not been made many changes on that page. What kind of logic is that? Do we now also have to constantly modify history books to keep them valid?

True.
Really come on how many pages are actively being updated.
Somethings don't change, what do they expect with making updates every now and then!

I guess we should have updated the number of planes hosted in FGMembers :lol:

SHM

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:56 pm**

Haha
@Mavercik, You are naive if you think this action is due to updates. :oops:

For the last 5 months the page was locked for deletions and it just read that discussions were taking place to remove it . It was impossible to modify at that point.
Then Hooray comes claiming it is his unilateral decision.
Very weird.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:42 pm**

IAHM-COL wrote:Haha
@Mavercik, You are naive if you think this action is due to updates.

I was joking...

Anyway, I still can't see to point of deleting the page, I mean, FGMEMBERS is used daily, new people join it, so why removing a page which contains useful tips about how to use it etc. in a easy-finding place just because it "seems" to be unused/not updated/disliked or whatever? :shock:

Regards, Mav

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:39 pm**

This is just one step in their effort to eradicate every reference to fgmembers from their servers. You must realize that there are quite some fanatics that demand it. It does not worry me much, because fgmembers will still be found via other ways.

But their pathological protectiveness gets to a new low now. There is talk about ripping multiplayer completely out of fg, because evil people can gather there. That is panic to insanity. If they do that, they can shutdown the business. Man, how far from reality can you get?

My advice to them is to quit panicking and accept a club alongside them. The two clubs do not need to be friends to reap the benefit of a large thriving community. If they continue going faster downhill by the day with their protectiveness, i do not give this project much more than a year.

Kind regards, Vincent

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 2:07 am**

David Megginson wrote:Thanks for the background, Curt. For me, it's not a question of Git vs SVN
vs whatever; it's more that GitHub has completely changed the way most
collaborative software projects work. After a few years of using GitHub in
FOSS projects, as well as in work projects for the Government of Canada and
the UN, the ideas of emailing around patches or of asking for commit access
to a repo feel like a retro 2001-themed open-source party. Nobody works
that way any more.

Since I started lurking again, there have been so many times I've thought
"I'll send a pull request for that fix ... oh, right, I can't."

[end rant]

Cheers, David

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 5:12 am**

I just read it. And I also noticed how curt missed all the clues

[so sad]

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 7:50 am**

KL-666 wrote:There is talk about ripping multiplayer completely out of fg, because evil people can gather there. That is panic to insanity. If they do that, they can shutdown the business. Man, how far from reality can you get?

Have they REALLY thought about that? Now tell me what FlightGear will be without having fun together in a virtual open-to-all sky?
This is getting really too far, it's not just about removing an additional, now unused feature in the sim, it's about removing the way people interact in FG and spend time during their free time over a day, it's not just about "preventing evil to fly in the simulator", for me, there's no sense in this.
Removing multiplayer will make FlightGear, one of the most known, loved and used simulators in the world, retrocede to a simple free game that can be downloaded from nowhere but SourceForge.
There are no advantages in that, no more Festival, no more ATC, no more Mumbles, no more formation flights, and the list could continue for more than 10 lines if you just think about all the thinks someone can do in MP.
In my opinion, if you really think you have to remove an MP system from a simulator without serious motivations (e.g. servers are broken, no one pays them, or similar) it's just a childish, unfounded reasoning.
That said, I'll fly somewhere in MP.
Regards, Mav

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 11:00 am**

Hello Maverick,

You can be quite sure that Hooray is in the knowing when he says about ripping multiplayer out:

some have suggested, behind the scenes, to just pull the plug and get rid of many problems in the process

As we can see that the same fanatics gain strength in eradicating every reference to fgmembers, we can be sure that they will gain strength on this too. Such a pity to see a great simulator project being self-destroyed, only because of the paranoia of a few that have completely lost touch with reality.

When Hooray says:

I bet the FlightGear forum would be a very calm place should someone roll out a release with the multiplayer feature disabled/ripped out entirely

He too completely misses the reality that not only the forum will be calm, but the complete project as no-one wants to develop on an archaic simulator without multi player. Except maybe a few T(h)orstens.

Kind regards, Vincent

Hooray's post on the other forum:

Re: Mumble trolling

Postby Hooray » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:57 pm
you know, there's the impression that the multiplayer environment is attracting the kind of people that are causing tons of work, and headaches, without these people contributing in any meaningful/visible way other than causing havoc (and I am not referring to flamewars or heated discussions here) - some have suggested, behind the scenes, to just pull the plug and get rid of many problems in the process.

Thus, I would seriously suggest to discuss multiplayer stuff somewhere else, it's really just adding to this impression and the pain/gain when it comes to the multiplayer feature may not be worth all that hassle.

If you care so deeply about VAs, multiplayer etc, it's not such a problem to get your own forum and discuss things there, absent that, I would suggest to use the PM feature.

I bet the FlightGear forum would be a very calm place should someone roll out a release with the multiplayer feature disabled/ripped out entirely ...

Access to MPserver12
Thorsten wrote:
Hooray wrote:
Also, the question remains if MP/VA/VATSIM-like functionality is necessarily the right incentive for the type of "contributors" a project like FG may want to attract.

Doesn't seem to... I think it's a simple question of time allocation - to be active in the MP scene, you need lots of time in the air (and at certain times where others and the ATC are on). To develop you also needs lots of time which goes away from time spent simply flying. For that simple reason, it's mutually exclusive.

I don't think FG has historically gained a significant number of developers through MP and I don't think it ever will in the future. So attracting developers is not a reason to continue having MP, but there are others. 'Immoral' developers like me actually don't mind providing features that are interesting for other users just for the sake of it without any immediate benefits for themselves or the project.

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 12:01 pm**

If i put my insanely maniacal dictatorial hat on I suggest that the minute they pull the plug on MP.... there'll be an official forking of Flightgear ?

Just think about that for a second.

If you want people to leave then remove the one functionality they can't live without....

I think we can say the gloves would be off then.

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 2:41 pm**

Even if they remove multiplayer they DON'T solve problems, people like me will not upgrade FG to a version without the MP feature and will use other non official MP servers (some already created private servers). That will significantly reduce the number of people who will really care about new features 'cause all they want to do is fly in a multiplayer environment with other people.
So there will be less members (but also newbies) who are going to follow this new system and resulting in a withdraw of consensus of the core devs in what could become the new dictatorial vision of an Open-Source simulator.
I hope they not ban me for sharing my opinion about a matter that is more than simply pull the plug off a server.
Regards, Mav

Free Flight, Free Speech

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